Orban: Serbia can always count on Hungary

BUDAPEST - If the European Council includes the Brussels and Ohrid agreements in Serbia’s EU accession talks, which Serbia opposes, Belgrade can always count on Hungary, Hungarian PM Viktor Orban told Tanjug in an interview.

"It's a very complicated issue and Serbia can always count on Hungary," Orban said when asked about next week’s EU-Western Balkans summit, when a decision on the move could be made.

He added that the situation in Kosovo-Metohija was a very complicated issue and that he would not like to make any judgment on the situation.

"What I have seen in the last several years that you Serbs are constantly provoked. It's a provocation. And you can react well, or you're not aware of the provocation, but whatever your reaction is, don't forget that the starting point is the provocation. And we have minorities in many countries, and we know how the majority can provoke the minority. So we understand the pattern, how it's going on, in that territory. So that's the reason why we support the Serbian minority living there. Whatever I can do, I'm ready to do for that, even though we suffered some physical casualties in the latest clashes of the local groups. But regardless of that, we are still very much supportive. That's the first thing. Secondly, I think your diplomacy is doing well to insist on international law, because international law is on your side. And this issue cannot be managed without accepting international law. You can't neglect international law. So you should insist on it. Plus, don't forget that there are five countries in the European Union that have not accepted the state status of Kosovo. So it's an open issue. So we have to negotiate on that. Whether we have a chance to make an agreement or not, I'm not a good fortune teller to answer that question. But I know that we should do everything that we can do to finally find the solution," Orban said.

Asked about Serbia-Hungary relations and the decisive factor in the reconciliation of Serbs and Hungarians after centuries of conflict, he explained that this was a complicated relationship, because for Serbs, who belonged to the “big ocean of the Slavic nations,” it was not easy to understand the Hungarians because they belonged neither to the Slavic nor to the German-speaking societies.

"So, we are aliens in a certain sense. So, we consider ourselves an island, even if we are a landlocked country, but culturally, linguistically, and (in terms of) our traditions, it's a Christian, Western Christian, Catholic, but very nationally unique composition of the tradition. So it's not easy to find a relationship for a country like we are with the neighbors who are different. So, the starting point is rather complicated. And if you look back on history, you can distinguish clear periods when we cooperated well and periods when we were hostile to each other. And the lesson is very clear. When we were hostile to each other, it was not good for either of us. When we cooperated with the Serbs, it was always good for us. Plus, don’t forget that many Serbian communities arrived in Hungary because of the history and settled here in Hungary, created quite a respectful way of life and achievement, Szentendre and all those kinds of territories which are Serbian. Even in Budapest, we have a quarter, the Serbian church and so on, so you Serbs are respected here in Hungary for historical reasons", said Orban.

Asked about his views on Sofia's recent decision to impose a tax on Russian gas and whether he anticipated a collaborative response from Budapest and Belgrade, Orban said this was very clearly an anti-Hungarian decision and that he was not interested in why Bulgaria had done that or what it expected in relation to Russia.

"It's not my job. I'm just the leader of the Hungarians, and what was done by the Bulgarian government is clearly an anti-Hungarian step. And they have to reverse it. We can't accept it, they have to change it. So I'm very clear-cut on that. Whatever the intention was, the consequence is bad for the Hungarians, which we cannot accept," said Orban.

Commenting on migration and the so-called Balkan migrant route, he said Hungarians were quite tough on that subject because they viewed migration as something more than a security problem.

"Look at what's going on in Western countries. We do not consider it as only an economic issue. It is one, anyway. Look at the social burden of the migration flow for the Western countries. But we have a civilisational horizon to understand what it is,” Orban said, noting that Hungary was under Ottoman occupation for 150 years.

“So when I'm speaking about migration, we have a historical knowledge of it. We have a very concrete one because we see the migrants who are coming," said Orban.

Hungary sees the consequences of mass migration, especially illegal migration in Western societies, and “when you put all these dimensions together, it is obvious that Hungary has to oppose it,” he said.

"No, migration is a bad thing. The question is not how to manage it. The question is how to stop it, if we would like to maintain our original religious and cultural background and civilisation," Orban said.

Talking about EU enlargement and Hungary’s attitude towards membership for Ukraine, he said he would try to convince the French president not to support a start of membership talks with Ukraine because he thought “this historical move is not prepared properly.”

"It's obvious that the process of getting membership in the European Union is a merit-based, objective process. It's not subjective. There are clear-cut milestones you have to deliver. If you don't reach them, you can't move to the next step. And unfortunately, the report made by the (European) Commission, saying that 4 out of the 7 requests as preconditions for starting negotiations were fulfilled by Ukraine is simply not true. It's fake. And 4 is less than 7," said Orban.

He explained that he would like to see the Ukrainians get closer to Europe and that they had a European path, but that it was ridiculous to say Ukraine was in a position to start negotiations “let's say, tomorrow morning.”

"So, it takes years to prepare Ukraine (and get it) in a proper shape to start to negotiate. And I haven’t even mentioned the war, uncertainty in the territory, the number of the population. And the other thing, it's never happened that somebody who is in a war, physically in a war, started to negotiate on membership with the European Union. Which territory? How many people are we speaking about?” he said.

Orban added that his proposal was different, and that “first, we should make a deal, a contract with the Ukrainians on a so-called strategic partnership.”

"All dimensions of it, clarifying what it means in terms of security? What will be the impact, in the longer term, of getting closer to Ukraine on central European agriculture? How will it impact our financial system in the European Union? Without clarifying that, and not just theoretically, but in practice, to make some test period, it's impossible to start to negotiate. Don't forget what kind of mistake we have done with Turkey. We started to negotiate with the Turks years, years, years, decades ago, and we are in the middle of nowhere. So this is not the right thing. I understand that many leaders would like to send a positive message to Ukraine, that we are with Ukraine, we support Ukraine. Okay, I understand it, and I accept it. But membership, and starting to negotiate on membership, is not a method of sending messages. It's a very complex, legal, merit-based procedure. Don't mix it up, the political intention, and the legal procedure of membership," Orban said.

Asked about Serbia’s European path, he said he was not sure the EU sincerely wanted Serbia as its member.

"Is it fair that Western Balkan countries, Serbia being the leader of that, have been negotiating for years and years and years and that the opening of new chapters always gets postponed? The process is very slow, and then out of the blue, suddenly, because of political reasons, Ukraine arrives and starts to negotiate. It's not fair to those countries which considered membership to be a merit-based process. It's not fair to Serbia. So, not only Serbia, but some others. So, I'm afraid that the European leaders do not understand the strategic importance of Serbia and the Western Balkans. They are far away,” said Orban.

Asked if Serbia could still count on Hungary's understanding for its stance on sanctions against Russia, Orban noted that Serbia’s behavior was more than logical because sanctions were not a good method.

"Hungary is a member of the European Union. I don't like that approach. I mean, a sanctions-based approach to international politics. Not just in relation to Russia, but generally speaking. We have very rare examples where sanctions led us to the desired outcome and result. So, therefore, sanctions are not a good method. Secondly, what we are doing with Russia, the European Union on sanctions, it's not reasonable at all because we destroy our economy. We cause more casualties and troubles for ourselves than to the Russians. So this kind of sanctions system is not properly engineered. That's the reason why I'm criticising it. But Serbia is not part of the European Union. Nobody can expect Serbia to have a European sanctions system when Serbia is not a member of the European Union. So what the president and the diplomacy of Serbia are doing looks very logical from Budapest. And why they should accept something that is bad for them? …Politics is a field of rationality - not just emotions, but rationality as well. And rational behavior leads us to the conclusion that this is an exclusive decision of the Serbian state, whether to accept sanctions, to introduce sanctions, or not," Orban said.